[rerevisionist]

We've gone to a lot of trouble to write detailed material for this site. If you find it difficult to understand, it's your problem.

[Ranb]

The problem is that you (who is this we?) are unable to grasp how nuclear physics works at all. You declare that something is fact, and then go with it instead of searching for evidence to support or disprove your theory. It is like the Red Queen in Disney's Alice in Wonderland demanding that the sentence be passed before the trial.

If the rest of your reasoning is like your "less than critical mass" argument, then I am going to be in for a big disappointment when it comes to discussing anything technical with you.

Can't you man up and bring one piece of evidence of your choosing to the table for debate?

Ranb

[rerevisionist]

I repeat, we have included a lot of material, and some specifically on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Why don't you read it and post your devastating insights? I for one am not interested in your tantrums.

[Ranb]

Let's start with this material.

The claim that Ferebee was able to drop Little Boy just 800 feet from where he aimed is a fantastic claim. With the technology of 1945, he had about a fifty/fifty change of hitting Hiroshima.

You did not make the claim, but you think is it valid.

So a bomber flying above a city that is let's say 300 square miles large. This would give it a radius of nearly ten miles. If the bomber is flying at 30,000 feet and 220 mph, the bomb is not going to travel any farther than 2 miles before it detonates. I would say this means the chances of hitting the city are much greater than 50/50.

What say you?

Ranb

[FirstClassSkeptic]

Is it impossible that they got lucky with Little Boy? They nearly missed with Fat Man over Nagasaki. It detonated near a valley which contributed to the lower casualties even though it was the more powerful of the two bombs.

Ranb

They claimed a miss of 1200 feet, wasn't it? I think that's what it was; just going by memory. But in WWII bombing of Japan, it wasn't unusual to miss a target by ten miles when bombing from high altitudes, because of the jet stream over Japan. That's why LeMay switched to low altitude bombing. So even the claim that they missed the target by 1200 feet isn't believable.

I've concentrated mostly on the Hiroshima fake nuclear bombing. There's more information about that.

Ferebee was a mediocre bombardier. He consistently missed targets in practice. The story that Tibetts tells about putting a pillow on the Norden eye piece to steady Ferebee at the moment the bomb was released is patently false. The bombardier would have no way of knowing when the bomb would be released since the Norden bomb-sight was an analog computer which calculated the moment of release. The bomb release switch was internal and not accessible to the bombardier. Therefore the bombardier would have no physical reaction at the moment of the release of the bombs, such ar rising from his seat, since he could not anticipate the moment of release. He might guess, yes.

Also, all of the stories about Ferebee squeezing a trigger, pushing a button, or some other such action, to release the bomb over Hiroshima are in error. I might understand a sloppy reporter relating such a wrong story, but some of the people saying that Ferebee did this claim to be first hand account crew members. Such as the tail gunner, for example, who put out a book about it. Of course, since the bombardier was in the nose of the plane, the most forward crew position, and the tail gunner was in the tail, the most aft position, I don't see why anyone would take it as a first hand account.

It's the inconsistencies in the stories that are the clue to their falseness. One of the major inconsistencies derives from the fact that high altitude bombing in Japan was a dismal failure, yet, supposedly, Ferebee was able to drop a bomb from 31,000 feet and hit 600 feet from his aim. Something no one else was able to do in bombing Japan. To overcome the doubt in the minds of the many bombardiers who bombed Japan, as there most surely must have been some doubt in their minds about this official story, the atomic bomb hoax spinners had to some up with the notion that Ferebee was somehow above the rest; gifted, specially talented, magical.

[FirstClassSkeptic]

So a bomber flying above a city that is let's say 300 square miles large. This would give it a radius of nearly ten miles. If the bomber is flying at 30,000 feet and 220 mph, the bomb is not going to travel any farther than 2 miles before it detonates. I would say this means the chances of hitting the city are much greater than 50/50.

What say you?

Ranb

Hiroshima was a city with an area of four square mites. That would be a radius of about one mile. The CEP for a bomber at 20,000 feet was 3,300 feet radius. That was about 3/5 of the radius of Hiroshima. The CEP for a bomber at 30,000 feet was never determined. So, it's true, I am just making a rough guess to say a 50/50 chance of hitting Hiroshima. But a rough guess is probably as good as anything since there is no reliable date to make an decent calculation.

The jet stream over Japan blew at 100 to 300 miles per hour, and it changed direction and speed constantly and quickly. It was this jet stream that made high altitude bombing a failure over Japan. It wasn't that great in Europe, really, but much better because there was no jet stream over Europe.

Tokyo was a city of 17 square miles, and it was the largest city in Japan, at that time. I don't think there were any 300 square mile cities in Japan. That would be more like an entire island.

[FirstClassSkeptic]

It is like the Red Queen in Disney's Alice in Wonderland demanding that the sentence be passed before the trial.

We are having the trial right here. In any criminal trial, you look for inconsistencies in the testimony of the witnesses.

[Ranb]

But in WWII bombing of Japan, it wasn't unusual to miss a target by ten miles when bombing from high altitudes, because of the jet stream over Japan.

The bombardier would have no way of knowing when the bomb would be released since the Norden bomb-sight was an analog computer which calculated the moment of release. The bomb release switch was internal and not accessible to the bombardier. Therefore the bombardier would have no physical reaction at the moment of the release of the bombs, such ar rising from his seat, since he could not anticipate the moment of release. He might guess, yes.

Also, all of the stories about Ferebee squeezing a trigger, pushing a button, or some other such action, to release the bomb over Hiroshima are in error.

Since the bombardier sets up the sight, he should have a good idea when the release is to take place. Thousands of pounds of bombs being released from the plane will change the its attitude briefly and this could be felt by the crew.

So what are your sources for info on the Hiroshima bombing? Who wrote them. Got some names and titles for us?

Ranb

[Ranb]

Hiroshima was a city with an area of four square mites.

The jet stream over Japan blew at 100 to 300 miles per hour, and it changed direction and speed constantly and quickly.

Tokyo was a city of 17 square miles, and it was the largest city in Japan, at that time. I don't think there were any 300 square mile cities in Japan. That would be more like an entire island.

Sources for these claims? Hiroshima was surely more than 2.25 miles long/wide back in 1945. Here is a map of the destruction of the city. https://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=6592

So does the jet stream change much over the course of a few miles?

Ranb

[FirstClassSkeptic]

So what are your sources for info on the Hiroshima bombing? Who wrote them. Got some names and titles for us?

Ranb

All of the sources are linked in this thread. Didn't you read the thread?

After the bombs are released, the crew knows it. Certainly no argument there.

I gave in this thread details on how the Norden bombsight was operated. The bombardier adjusted the speed of the crosshairs to the apparent speed of the target viewed through the eyepiece. At the precise moment of release, the bombardier could have his eyes closed, he could be eating a sandwich. It didn't matter. Once the crosshairs were synchronized with the target, the Norden bomb sight calculated the time of the release of the bomb. Tens of thousands of men were trained to do this. It wasn't difficult. Ferebee wasn't special.

Tibbett's story that Ferebee raised up from his seat at the moment of the release of the bombs, as an excuse for his lack luster performance in practice, is patently false. Ferebee couldn't have anticipated the moment of the closing of the switch in the Norden bomb sight, and even if he did, and got up out of his seat, it wouldn't make any difference anyway. It's what came before the release that mattered.

Tibbetts seems to be implying that there was a parallax error in the Norden bombsight. AS in, if you didn't look through they eyepiece straight and level, you would get a false reading. I don't know if that is necessarily so. It's possible, but I doubt it.