[rerevisionist]

Following the comments on Milgram, consider the 'brainwashing' idea.

As far as I can tell, J A M Meerloo's book The Rape of the Mind: The Psychology of Thought Control Menticide and Brainwashing (1956) was a main influence. The best-known book in Britain was W Sargant Battle for the MInd (1957) which, judging by the bibliography, and the fact that Sargant worked most or all of his life in London, was pretty much plagiarised from Meerloo.

I'd suggest that (as in Vietnam) there were some Americans who didn't like mass slaughter, and of course psychologists with professional cowardice had to invent a reason why this wasn't permissible. The idea is 90% phony but seems persistent - I've even seen a legit and serious researcher, aware of the problems of bias and suggestion, talk of people 'who were selected and brainwashed' as though it's possible to 'wipe' a brain - maybe an idea suggested by tape recorders, which were new at the time.

[bamzam]

From what I've read on the issue I have come to the conclusion that mind control is very possible and real but not in the way we commonly think of in parlor games and swinging clock hypnosis. Trauma based Mind Control used from a very early age and at times even as early as birth can be a powerful tool for controlling a person throughout their life. Since a child has no mental tools to deal with extreme trauma the result is that the brain dissociates as a protective measure and with that reaction the child has an outlet for the mental anguish but the abuser who understands this process has now created an alternate personality that it can control and direct using whatever rules and codes they want. Also to note that repeated traumas can create nearly unlimited number of personalities all of which can coexist and/or be unaware of each other as the handler instructs.

My original exposure to this topic and by far the most convincing was from a survivor of a cult that was a generational victim and survivor of mind control as well as being a high level programmer herself. There is extensive evidence and reports by survivors of mind control usually from cults and this being termed "ritual abuse." You can find many forums and support groups for people who have escaped out of these cults and are basically unable to function in society and have to undergo extensive rehabilitation. Things that seem innocuous to us such as a color or certain words or images can trigger a victim into switching personalities if that is what their handler programmed.

Here is the original source by the writer svali (not her real name)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6119898/Illum ... ams-people

[rerevisionist]

I think this stuff is 90% bullshit.

[1] The idea of 'programming' in presumably taken from computers, just as 'removing memory' was taken from wiping audio tape. However, the brain is not a computer. Nobody can write a computer program for the brain. Anyone who claims to be a 'programmer' is deceiving you.
[2] If you need proof, consider how many people would absolutely love to have followers or servants or mercenaries who would do exactly as they're instructed.
[3] The 'satanic child abuse' allegations were debunked years ago. It's quite amazing how the perpetrators were allowed to get away with their manufactured frauds.
[4] The Pavlov-like conditioning is nowhere near as convincing as sensationalists pretend. For example, his dogs were kept isolated, well away from as many other influences as possible. Under such circumstances, people/ animals/ etc can be treated in any way, and fear/ terror etc caused to them, but the whole idea of remote control as presented by the junk media is ridiculous. The best that can be done is well-known - cults, religious groups, language-bound groups, women not allowed out, aggression against target groups, aggression for that matter against in-group members to make them e.g. suicidal - there's nothing new in it. Nor in starvation, poisons, drugs, deprivation of the senses.

'Brainwashing' was specifically a bit of Cold War propaganda to hide atrocities, mainly by Americans.

[bamzam]

rerevisionist have you heard of Project MK Ultra ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA

A CIA mind control program that has since been declassified. It is no secret that work in this area has been going on for a long time. As to the success and efficacy, I have not met someone who claims to have been mind controlled aside from watching interviews of survivors and reading their accounts , not to mention those who claim to be in need of help.

I didn't believe these claims for a long time as I was still trying to comprehend rationally the idea of having a fragmented mind. However, I have to say that I don't know what being extremely tortured, drugged and manipulated at a very young age where the mind is malleable and before having an established sense of self can do to the mind. I think we are in agreement thought that programming or brainwashing a random fully grown adult is pretty impossible aside from the generalized methods of manipulation you mentioned.

[rerevisionist]

The CIA spent a fortune on all sorts of rubbish, for example 'remote viewing'. Quite apart from funding drug runners, funding ridiculous propaganda stuff, etc. You can be pretty certain that anything 'declassified' will not be important.

You're missing the point here. The US in Korea used genocidal methods. When some Americans objected, the phrase 'brainwashing' was shoved into general use by the media. It's the same sort of reason that 'anti-semitism' was shoved into general use in about the 1920s.

[EyesWideOpen]

The CIA spent a fortune on all sorts of rubbish, for example 'remote viewing'. Quite apart from funding drug runners, funding ridiculous propaganda stuff, etc. You can be pretty certain that anything 'declassified' will not be important.

Drug induced amnesia (brainwashing) is a fact of life. Furthermore, energy can be transferred and felt from one human to another, without speaking or signaling; the distance of this phenomenon is uncertain.

You're missing the point here. The US in Korea used genocidal methods. When some Americans objected, the phrase 'brainwashing' was shoved into general use by the media. It's the same sort of reason that 'anti-semitism' was shoved into general use in about the 1920s.

The US sided with the majority of Koreans, so it was not "genocidal". The US public did not care one iota about the Korean War, there were no massive protests or objections to the Korean War. The Korean War was a short (3 year) UN approved police action.

[rerevisionist]

[1] Drug-induced amnesia. I'm not sure what you mean by this. Brain damage will cause amnesia, if you can call destruction of a brain or part of it, 'amnesia'. A drug or chemical which caused brain damage might be called 'amnesic'. However, if you mean there's a drug that causes brainwashing, perhaps you'd give details.

[2] 'Energy can be transferred and felt..' - this is complete nonsense.

[3] It doesn't matter who the US sided with, or what 'public opinion' in the USA, insofar as controlled opinion can be counted as 'public opinion', was. The US used genocidal methods, and people who complained were described as 'brainwashed'.

[mooninquirer]

rerevisionist ---- I am not sure why you call brainwashing phony psychology, because I think that MOST people have been brainwashed to believe that whatever the media says is true. And we have all been born into one gigantic cult, and many are not even aware of it. They are programmed to start punishing themselves, or apologizing if they ever assert that the Jews have too much power, or even control the media, because, after all, the Jews have always been victims throughout history, and one would just be repeating the canards of Adolf Hitler.

And it takes a very long time to give up an embedded, visceral feeling that Adolf Hitler was NOT a very evil man. In my case, my uncle volunteered not only for the US Army soon after WW II, but for the paratroopers, and he was a paratrooper on D-Day, and several months later he was KIA, and is buried in Belgium.
So, for me, it was an especially hard transition to make to realize that Hitler was not an evil man, but just responding to the evils that the Jews were doing to Germany ( and had done to Russia ), and to the world.

Another case of brainwashing, is not just in having been brainwashed from birth, but the effect of constant media repetition to ERASE a previous memory or a fact. For example, I remember that A LOT of people in real life doubted that the moon landing actually occurred, because the VERY implausible events were constantly broadcast on TV and fresh in people's minds. I remember a lot of people asking me as a child if I believed the moon landing really occurred, or saying that it was filmed in a studio, in discussing the scene with the moon rover, because it seemed so implausible that they could have the room to take such a big thing as that, or the highly implausible ---- a tall tale, really ---- of Apollo 13 "successful failure" aborted mission in which the astronauts were not killed.

It was my older BROTHER who suggested 40 years ago that the moon landing was a hoax, and yet when I told him this recently, he laughed as though that was a crazy idea ! He SUPPRESSED his own idea and thought, in favor of what the MEDIA wants ! Ultimately, I think this was a main purpose of the moon landing hoax ---- to act as a large scale social experiment, so that the Jews in power could test how the repetition over time helps erase a memory. It was a social experiment similar to the "War of the Worlds," which created a huge panic that Martians had invaded the Earth, and which was NO accident, but a test funded by the Rockefellers and other bankers, to test crowd psychology. ( This is referenced in this following documentary ---- google : PHENOMENON FEDERAL RESERVE ).

The HEIGHT of disbelief in the moon landing was when it was actually broadcast, and it has increased over time, although with the internet and 911, there are more people who realize the moon landing was a hoax than in the 80s and 90s. Because the moon landing hoax demonstrated the gullibility of people to believe what the media says, I think the Jews in power felt emboldened to carry out 911, although I think with 911 they bit off more than can chew, and they greatly regret exposing themselves like that.

Now, the height of QUESTIONING of the events of 911 was in the first three months after it had happened, when it was fresh in people's minds, and people were MOST primed to think about the details of that event. But the passage of time, and constant repetition of the "fact" that Arab Muslim hijackers and bin Laden did it, has CRYSTALLIZED this event in the minds of the public. Also, part of this is the fact that it is referenced as a FACT, upon which other things are based and argued. That is why there was the phony debate that waged for WEEKS in the media, of whether there should be built at ground zero a mosque, as well as the phony debate of whether a pastor should be allowed to burn a Quran on Sept 11, 2010, in commemoration of 911. The Iman who proposed building the mosque at ground zero was actually paid off by David Rockefeller through the CFR. And this coming anniversary of 911, you just wait and see ---- there is going to be an enormous debate over whether we should have killed bin Laden, with many people, who will be called "bleeding heart liberals" saying he should not have been killed, and others called "hawks" saying he should have. This will just be another phony debate, to act as a form of brainwashing.

These phony debates are similar to the phony debate over whether we should have dropped the nuclear bomb on Hiroshima. This is CLEARLY a phony debate, because MORE people were killed in the firebombing of Tokyo, than were reported have been killed in Hiroshima ! And for those who KNOW that MOST cities in Japan were already firebombed, the constant reference to Hiroshima or "the bomb" serves as a form of brainwashing to ERASE the very inconvenient ( inconvenient from the perspective of the nuke bomb propagandists ) fact that many other cities were firebombed. Note that it is very often falsely stated in these phony debates that "we needed to drop the bomb in order to win the war, and ultimately, it saved more lives."

Another technique that is used to brainwash people to accept a falsehood, is to ridicule anyone as crazy, extremely uneducated, or stupid, who questions the thing that the Jews in power want to EMBED or some sanctified historical dogma that they want to protect. With the holocaust, the trolls call anyone who denies it a NAZI ( used as a pejorative ), or a racist. With other dogmas, they just cannot call someone a racist or a hater when they deny it, so the name calling and social ostracism has to be more intense, calling a truth teller names like "retarded." We see this a lot with all of the trolls on youtube, especially on the moon hoax topic, and to a lesser extent on the HIV = AIDS topic, but also to a large extent whenever you comment that the nuke bombs are very fake looking, as indeed they are !

[rerevisionist]

mooninquirer - yes, I agree with everything you say, including your Second World War comments. To this day, many people in Britain believe they were heroic and principled in fighting Germany, despite the evidence, and the damage it caused to Britain. They think it proves the British can be relied on to rise up and fight evil - rather than the less palatable idea that they are a bunch of sheep who do what they're told.

BUT it's the word 'brainwashing' I disagree with. 'Brainwashing' is supposed to be a technical process of altering belief systems (or something - it's a bit vague) but you're talking about the effect of constant lies, which imho is something else. Many Jews and Muslims are in effect exposed to propaganda from birth and this process is quite effective, unfortunately, but it predates modern science by about 1300 years. To a young child, everything is propaganda. Call it 'brainwashing' if you like, but the double use of the word is a source of confusion.

[mooninquirer]

rerevisionist ----- I would say that Jews are one of the few groups that have NOT been exposed to propaganda from birth, and they have have an advantage in knowing about what is going on in the world, because they know that what the media says is just lies, and propaganda so that the Jews in power can control the masses of Gentiles. Every connected Jew, who lives with, works with, or frequently talks with other Jews knows about all of the things that are otherwise called conspiracies, and that the Jews in power are behind them. And in my experience, some Jews know that nuke bombs are a hoax.

[rerevisionist]

Mooninquirer --- I would say that Jews are one of the few groups that have NOT been exposed to propaganda from birth, and they have have an advantage in knowing about what is going on in the world, because they know that what the media says is just lies, and propaganda so that the Jews in power can control the masses of Gentiles. ...

Yes, they control the US media and some proportion of the European media - most of it. And judging by reporting of the First World War and the 'Russian Revolution' this has been the case at least since 1914. We're using 'propaganda' in slightly different ways. What I was thinking of, with Jews and Muslims (and even gipsies), is the intense tribalist feeling that they're exposed to from birth - the unevidenced idea they are a superior group and 'out-group' members are inferior and ought to be subject to crime, cruelty, and general abasement. Despite the fact that so-called 'Jews' are mostly unrelated to their supposed ancestral group, and Muslims are mostly unrelated to Mohammed's tribe - both groups are in fact almost entirely the ancestors of converts. Maybe the US official book on mental ill-health, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, will come to list Islam and Judaism as mental disorders. Come to think of it, since 'propaganda' is clearly a Catholic term describing information to be disseminated outwards, I'm the one here using the word wrongly. It could be significant that there's no word for intensive, cult-style, relentless teaching from very young ages of these tribalist 'religions', couldn't it.

[EyesWideOpen]

[1] Drug-induced amnesia. I'm not sure what you mean by this. Brain damage will cause amnesia, if you can call destruction of a brain or part of it, 'amnesia'. A drug or chemical which caused brain damage might be called 'amnesic'. However, if you mean there's a drug that causes brainwashing, perhaps you'd give details.

[2] 'Energy can be transferred and felt..' - this is complete nonsense.

[3] It doesn't matter who the US sided with, or what 'public opinion' in the USA, insofar as controlled opinion can be counted as 'public opinion', was. The US used genocidal methods, and people who complained were described as 'brainwashed'.

Referring to your inaccuracies:

1. There are Drugs that cause amnesia without causing brain damage. Furthermore, I was brainwashed without drugs while in the military, as were all of us (just as I was brainwashed in School/College). The Military develops (through brainwashing) a type of behavior they want developed which lasts for several years after one gets out of the Military. Ask anyone who has been in the Military for at least 4 years and they will acknowledge that they were in that Military mindset for several years afterwards. Every day before we did certain events like sitting down or getting up, we would shout "Kill Kill Kill" in unison during boot camp. They also develop characteristics like the following of orders without hesitation and the idea that giving your life for a comrade is the highest form of service etc...

2. Human energy can easily be felt be most people; if someone is staring at you, if someone is standing outside your bedroom door, if someone's body temperature is hot while standing next to you, if someone has sexual feelings for you, if someone is angry standing behind you etc.... None of these qualities mentioned, requires one to physically see or talk to the individual that is giving off this invisible energy that can be felt by another person. Studies on Twins have been done further showing the relationship and awareness of each other at long distances. Its very simple minded to disregard the fact that the human body gives off energy that can be felt by others; the distance this can be felt is the only question in my mind.

3. The word GENO-CIDE refers to the act of attempting to eradicate the GENETICS of a particular group of people. GENO (refers to genetics) + CIDE (refers to killing). The USA did not do any such thing in Korea. What was talked about was captured prisoners being "brainwashed" by the North Koreans. Ironically, most people would view the citizens of North Korea today as being "brainwashed", yet the same citizens in America are HEAVILY brainwashed with false views of reality/history. Looking at the average North Korean or American, one can easily see the heavy amount of brainwashing BOTH groups of people are under.