[rerevisionist]

'Moon Landings etc': Did NASA Ever Test Their 'Space Suits' with 'Astronauts' in Vacuum Chambers on Earth?

This isn't a nuclear issue, but it is a science fraud issue. Did anybody test 'space suits' in a vacuum? To simulate being on the moon. It wouldn't have to be an extremely high vacuum. The sun's radiations could be simulated by heating and lighting rigs giving the same watts/metre as the sun, plus radiation generated ad hoc to simulate what was detected beyond the earth's atmosphere. Obviously, anyone serious about walking on the moon would have to test the 'suit', and breathing and other equipment, in conditions as realistic as possible. Easy enough to do. Yet I find no evidence anywhere, online or in books, to suggest this was ever done. 'Vacuum chambers' are mostly industrial. The nearest trials are 'astronauts' or actors in their suits on springs, plus maybe the Chinese fakes underwater. But maybe I've missed the evidence.

[FirstClassSkeptic]

I am sure they were tested in a vacuum because the Apollo suits were made by a brassiere and girdle manufacturer, and since all undergarment designs must be tested in a high vacuum, the manufacturer must have had the facilities to do this high vacuum test, and it's safe to assume they did.

[rerevisionist]

Good thinking, FCS. There's a long tradition of lacing women very tightly into bodices (I think that's the right word). 15 lbs a square inch must be routine. Thanks for your assurance.

[ApolloGnomon]

Hi Guys! First post.

Space suits are one of my areas of personal interest, so I can answer this with some amount of detail.

I was reading a book recently called U.S. Space Suits, by Kenneth S. Thomas & Harold J. McMann. There are pictures of several different models of suit being tested in vacuum chambers, both with and without a person inside (depending on the stage of testing).

Here's a video of a suit test that goes wrong -- the test subject in the suit lives, but I'm sure it was pretty hairy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO8L9tKR4CY

Something many people may not realize is that space suits didn't spring out of nowhere. There was a long line of development leading up to them. As soon as airplanes were viable items pilots started to try going higher and higher. At high altitudes it was discovered that cold and lack of oxygen was impeding further progress. They started with keeping the pilot warm and then started pushing compressed air to the pilot via a tube from a compressor powered by the engine. Some early experiments also used bottled oxygen.

The Apollo space suits were developed using a competitive model, where different companies presented designs for testing. Criteria included the amount of "growth" under pressure, torque required to rotate the joints, flexibility and durability.

Here's a page listing several of the vacuum chambers NASA uses to test equipment.
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/engineering/integrated_environments/human_space_environment_testing/index.html

[rerevisionist]

Hello, Apollognomon, and welcome! You're one of the few people here claiming expertise. I hope you don't mind if we're a bit sceptical!

--OK, interesting Youtube of bloke in a suit in a vacuum.

BUT I can't help noticing he has a tube pressurising his suit. This, it states, was the failure that gave him problems. On the moon, there would be no such tube, would there? Is there a video of a man in a suit, with his backpack, for (say) eight hours, in a vacuum chamber?

ALSO I can't help noticing (second link) these are all rather tiny chambers. I'd like to see a larger chamber, ideally with moon-style sand or stone underfoot, plus a life-size version of the lunar lander. Above would be lighting and heating simulating the sun - the watts per meter to match what's found on the moon. The man in his suit and backpack could practice getting into and out of the module for his lunch. Ideally also there should be ambient radiation as from the sun. And possibly the occasional micrometeorite. Clearly the US wanted to get to the moon, and with all their funding, and their deep concern for human life, such a set-up would be easy enough to arrange. I'd be grateful if you could point me to the videos of all this. Thanks.

[FirstClassSkeptic]

I only got the video to play a little, and it flaked out.

I thought the vacuum chamber looked rather bankish.



I would wonder why a door on a vacuum chamber would need so many latches as the pressure on the outside would tend to seal it shut.

The slightly slow motion of the men walking, the hushed reverent speech, and the barely perceptible and eerie music, all create a dramatic effect.

[FirstClassSkeptic]

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegal ... _1281.html

[rerevisionist]

Thanks for the link to Plum Brook in Sandusky, Ohio. ("... provides jobs within the community. ...")



This is a link to its history, which is claimed to go back to 1941.
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/pbrf/fact-sheets/nasa%20history%20fact.pdf

It says Plum Brook Station’s four “World Class” facilities currently in operation include:
Space Power Facility the world’s largest thermal vacuum chamber for ground testing large equipment in a simulated space environment (i.e., surrounded by a vacuum and at very hot and cold temperatures) before taking the equipment into space
Spacecraft Propulsion Research Facility the world’s only facility that simulates the actual flight conditions of space on full-size rocket vehicles
Hypersonic Tunnel Facility the United States’ largest clean-air wind tunnel capable of performing tests up to seven times the speed of sound
Cryogenic Propellent Test Facility tests cutting-edge technology for high-energy space propulsion systems of the future

The first 'is the world's largest thermal vacuum chamber', presumably the one shown in FCS's photo its new form. But they only talk about 'taking the equipment in space' and don't either show the equivalent about fifty years ago, or any videos of spacemen in training with their backpacks and cameras.

[NUKELIES]

On the topic of radiation, I got a rather good comment on NUKE LIES YouTube today:

Current "theory" of matter is woefully unreasonable. The theory is accomodation for math equations. Gluons? Valence? Neutrons? What a crock. However, there are a few good questions about matter that as yet have no answer. One, what is radiation, especially ionizing radiation if there are no atoms? How is "nuclear" power created? What is? nuclear waste? Aristotle advised, " Question everything".
What if it turns out there really are no atom bombs?
airistoneo 4 hours ago

[FirstClassSkeptic]

The first 'is the world's largest thermal vacuum chamber', presumably the one shown in FCS's photo its new form. But they only talk about 'taking the equipment in space' and don't either show the equivalent about fifty years ago, or any videos of spacemen in training with their backpacks and cameras.

The picture I posted is a bank vault. I should have said so. It just goes to show that NASA could show a picture of a bank vault and say it's a vacuum chamber. And maybe that's what they did?

NASA says that the chambers simulate the conditions of space. But they don't say, in what you quoted, that they are actually operating the vehicles while in the chamber. It still seems to me to be a formidable engineering problem to keep a vacuum in a chamber while at the same time running a rocket engine inside that chamber.

[FirstClassSkeptic]

Good thinking, FCS. There's a long tradition of lacing women very tightly into bodices (I think that's the right word). 15 lbs a square inch must be routine. Thanks for your assurance.

It would seem to be a simple test just to get into a suit, and pressure it up to 20 psi, which is just five above atmospheric. NASA claims a vacuum outside the suit, and 5 psi inside. By pressurizing to 20 psi, you could test to see if the joints are flexible. And if the suit doesn't blow up.

[rerevisionist]

Apollo 11 A7l spacesuit

I'm not thinking so much of the 'suit' as the backpack. (Don't forget the visor has to be vacuum-proof too, since the astronaut's face is right behind it). This has to operate on the moon in a total vacuum; moreover it's subject to full sunlight and anything else out there. It has to deliver breathable air to the astronaut, and take away the water vapour etc. The temperature to the lungs has to be within normal limits. Many experiments have been done on divers - the pressure needed etc, but of course the set-up is different, with decompression issues. It must surely be the case that something like 100% of atmospheric pressure would be needed to oxygenate blood, since people start to get weak even on mountains on earth. The backpack has to reliably deliver this oxygen or air. I don't think there's much point going into calculations. All that's needed is to show an authentic video of a man in a suit in a vacuum, under high-powered heating and lighting to simulate the moon. (The walls would have to be cooled, to simulate the effect of radiant heat dissipating). He might practice photography with his Hasselblad. And for the same man might enter the module - to eat his lunch, and perform other activities perhaps best left undescribed. I don't believe it's possible, based on simple calculations, with a little backpack as shown. The heat dissipation alone - or heating needed in shade - would be impossible. The air supply couldn't possibly be enough. And the external vacuum means any activity outside the suit is almost impossible given the tiny space they had.

However - all that's needed is a demonstration!