[rerevisionist]

New (to me) thread on non-existence of nuclear weapons, by 'Dionysius' aka 'DionysiusAreopagitis'. About midway, 'NUKELIES' appears as 'violent' with his Youtube URL of 'Nuke Lies'

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/foru ... ic=11293.0
Right-click to load in a new tab. This is in the Flat Earth Society's website, presumably in its mode of investigating 'alternative' beliefs. His thread is titled 'Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist' and he was deluged with hostile spammers, missing the point and wasting lots of space. A few (e.g. SlaserX) came in on his side, a bit.

'Dionysius' belief system, assuming his postings are true
'Dionysius' claims to be an Orthodox Christian (Greek Orthodox?), who 'served' as a submarine 'yeoman' in the US Navy. He believes in a flat (but not hollow) earth with oddities, such as a huge mountain, at what are usually called the polar regions. He believes in earth, water, air and fire, but not atoms - the latter belief seems based on etymology - 'atom' is Greek for not-cuttable (a-tom), so if something is separable, it can't be an atom. 'Dionysius' seems to believe that fission can't exist, for the same reason, and electrolysis too. He believes uranium burns, but more strongly than coal - that's how he thinks atomic reactors work in nuclear submarines, rather than the other theory, which is that they aren't nuclear at all. He favours engineering reality over theory. He also has some Aether/ relativity/ Einstein- related beliefs, seemingly believing in 'Tesla/Reich aether accumulators'. (On Wilhelm Reich - http://www.big-lies.org/nuke-lies/www.nukelies.com/forum/orgone-reich-shills-jews-quangoes.html ).

One of the forum people wanted to identify 'Dionysius', considering him mentally incompetent even for the US military.

'Dionysius' - a pioneer nuke skeptic?
I thought from the wording style that 'Dionysius' might be the same person as 'cactusneedles', but if the postings are anything like true he can't be - Cactusneedles appears to be French Canadian, for one thing. I suspect 'Dionysius' has taken some material from cactusneedles; I don't think he's a pioneer. Cactusneedles' first postings were 2005 as far as I know, while Dionysius only appeared in 2007, along with a newly-revived cactusneedles/alexis111.

'Dionysius' on nuclear issues
He deals with Hiroshima and Nagasaki, having found Seversky's investigations, and the Reader's Digest articles about them - such as the absence of radiation in Japan. 'Dionysius' thinks there was a single large bomb on each of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. (This site's view is that both towns were firebombed in multiple raids, like other Japanese towns). He considers the Tsar bomb a fake, commenting on a youtube video (the same as the one at the start of NukeLies).

'Dionysius' - some points Newish stuff emphasised
* Supposed nuclear bomb explosions were designed to produce 'smoke' - he goes less for special effects fakery
* Plutonium was falsely promoted as deadly in tiny amounts [NB the film 'Silkwood' -1983 - has this] with a report on a group of men exposed to plutonium, but who in 1980 were shown to be perfectly OK.

As part of the synthetically manufactured atomic hysteria In 1947, twenty-six young men came who worked with these allegedly WMD nuclear weapons came into bodily contact with plutonium. In 1980, a medical survey was conducted of these twenty-six men who lived with plutonium inside them for 32 years and concluded that they had all lived normal lives and only two of them had died - one was run over by a truck and the other for a similarly irrelevant reason. (This information appeared in the Financial Times in 1980.)

* 1960 supposed nuclear accident at a US air base (supposed fire, and 'melted' weapon, and panicky fire crew - the site was covered with concrete) as a manufactured scare.
* Stanley Kubrick and Dr Strangelove and another Sellers film The Mouse that Roared as adverts for hugely powerful weapons.
* 'Cold War' as more or less phoney. He quotes a book which debunked the USSR's 'space race' (but does not comment on the USA). And mentions how there was suspicious Russian propaganda reciprocation and cooperation from Americans.
* The expensive underground collider was intended to fail, he says - the underground space to be used perhaps for a sort of concentration camp.
* Politics: he notes opponents of nuclear industries but thinks they're misguided. He says Turkey deserves far more venom than Iran (i.e. the case against Iran covers some other purpose). He comments on five separate surrender attempts by Japan in 1945 censored.

[FirstClassSkeptic]

That is where I got the idea to compare pictures of Hiroshima with Tokyo, because I think someone posts that on that forum. And I think I had a link to that forum from one of my deleted Google blogs.

The idea of one single big bomb is something I have considered. But it wouldn't be the one Tibbets supposedly dropped. I have doubts that the Enola Gay even flew over Japan that day. Or over HIroshima.

[rerevisionist]

Ah OK, FCS. Do you think I assessed his beliefs accurately? Trawling through the junk is a painful process...

[FirstClassSkeptic]

Actually, I've never read the entire thread. Just bits of it. And I was going to go back a read it, but lost the link a good while back, and couldn't find the page, though I could find Flat Earth Society. So thanks for posting the link, and I'm glad you did. Now, I can go read it.

[rerevisionist]

Postby FirstClassSkeptic » 03 Sep 2011 14:48
That is where I got the idea to compare pictures of Hiroshima with Tokyo, because I think someone posts that on that forum. And I think I had a link to that forum from one of my deleted Google blogs.

The idea of one single big bomb is something I have considered. But it wouldn't be the one Tibbets supposedly dropped. I have doubts that the Enola Gay even flew over Japan that day. Or over HIroshima.

[1] What's a 'deleted Google blog'? Do Google host blogs, and did they delete yours without permission?
[2] SIngle big bomb - my reading is that Dionysius mostly followed cactusneedles; I assumed the single bomb idea was taken over from the conventional view, i.e. Dionysius didn't really think about it.

HOWEVER Dionysius may have thought up some other new material, or prompted others in his thread - it's why I marked some of his material in red, above, where it seemed new, or at least newish. By 'newish' I include just a change of emphasis - e.g. he mentions there was suspicious Russian propaganda reciprocation and cooperation from Americans. Exactly - and just as would be expected from the Jewish co-operation hypothesis.

[FirstClassSkeptic]

The chief inspector of the US Secretary of War for these cities in the aftermath of the bombings was US Army Major Alexander de Seversky. He investigated many bombed cities throughout Japan. On each occasion, he first conducted an aerial survey followed by a through investigation on the ground, and he detected a similar pattern in every city evidently due to the methods of the bombers as well as the nature of the targets bombed. He was prepared for and anticipated quite a shock in Hiroshima yet found it to be completely the same as the rest of the cities he had surveyed. There was no bald spot at the centre of the blast. The metal framework of buildings standing in the middle epicentre of the bomb blast were intact. Some bricks had been blown out of those in the very centre, but the Hiroshima hospital only a mile away from the center of the blast suffered nothing more than having its windows blown out and no people in the building were even hurt. The greatest damage was NOT done by the blast but by fire as an after effect which accounted for at least 60,000 of the 200,000 persons who perished according to his report. Ratty wooden houses of which there were many constituted the main structural damage. Seversky concluded that the bomb had the effect of a large incendiary as most of the damage was caused by fire alone and not by the blast. He also stated that a great deal of wood remained in the rubble of the main area of the blast indicating that those buildings had not been incinerated by the heat of a blast but were destroyed afterwards by the fire that resulted from the bomb. He stated that a fleet of 200 B-29's which each dropped a routine load of incendiaries would have accomplished the same thing.

The same applies to Nagasaki. As a matter of fact, the Nagasaki bomb was alleged to have been more powerful. However, the principle area affected in Hiroshima constituted roughly a four square mile area with the blast in the centre (i.e. roughly a one mile radius around the centre of huts toppled by fires) yet the principle area affected in Nagasaki's allegedly more powerful bomb was only one solitary square mile.

Seversky wondered at why Nagasaki and especally Hiroshima had even been chosen as targets since they had no military value. They would very easily be destroyed by fire as the majoity of the structures in these two cities were rickety termite eaten poor Japanese wooden houses. However, they would easily serve the purpose of someone planning to elicit maximum propaganda value for the amount of destruction caused as such structures are easily destroyed by fire. (By the way, as far as propaganda goes one should also be careful of quoting the figures of the Bomb MUseum in Hiroshima as it admittedly derives its figure for the number of dead from the bomb from the deaths of anyone who was within the affected area within two weeks after the bombing including rescue workers, reporters, etc. REGUARDLESS OF WHEN THEY DIE AND IS STILL COUNTING THESE DEATHS EVEN TODAY.)

Major Seversky stated that the effect of one of these so-called atomic bombs dropped on New York City would affect an area much smaller than one of the five main buroughs.

As far as the retort to Seversky's article in the May 1946 issue of Reader's Digest, NONE OF THE AUTHORITIES INTERVIEWED CONTESTED SEVERSKY'S DESCRIPTION OF HIROSHIMA OR NAGASAKI OR THE FACTS HE STATED. They only argued his opinions such as his comparison with New York City and his allegation that the incendiaries of 200 B-29's would have accomplished the same effect.

Sounds interesting. I would like to know his sources for this. There should be an official report somewhere, if it's not classified.

[FirstClassSkeptic]

This might be the title of it:

Alexander De Seversky, "Report to Secretary of War Robert Patterson on the Role of Air Power in the Victory over Japan," February 11, 1946

Papers of Carl Spaatz, Library of Congress, Manuscript Division, Washington, D.C. Box 255, "Air Power - U.S."

Found this:

After Trip to Ruined Cities
De Seversky Claims Power
Of Bombs Overemphasized
Renowned Aviation Expert Flies Back to States
To Make Report to Secretary of War
On Air War Against Japs
By S/Sgt. Bill Graham
"The destructive power of the atomic bomb has been greatly overemphasized," Alexander de Seversky told the Hump Express in an exclusive interview this week.
Debunking the theory that the atomic bomb could wipe modern cities off the face of the earth, the world famous aviation exponent and write of "Victory Through Air Power" disclosed that he based his statements on a firsthand survey of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Scoffs at Theory
He passed through Calcutta on the way back to the States where he will give Sec. of War Robert Patterson a report on the use of air power in the war against the Japanese. He has just completed a tour which took him to all large Pacific bases as well as to the Japanese home islands.
De Seversky scoffed at the theory that full-scale use of the atomic bomb would have wiped out all Nip cities.
"I saw for myself what damage had been inflicted," he said, "and this is the conclusion that I have drawn:
Hiroshima was wiped clean by the blast of the bomb because of the nature of its buildings; old rotten
wood supported heavy
tile roofs which were pulverized by the concussion. The bomb worked so effectively here because our air force was wise enough to use the right weapon at the right place at the right time."
Even in the midst of the ruins, concrete buildings, gutted and burned, remained upright, de Seversky said, "Had the war continued," he reported, "we would have been forced to fall back on other high explosives and incendiary bombs. Actually the atomic bomb was a turning point in the war mainly because of its psychological effect."

'Atom Minds'
De Seversky declared that the American people "should come down to earth" in their thinking about future atomic production. "It's okay to atomize Jap cities," he said, "but let's not atomize our minds with wild theories."
In any future war, de Seversky thinks, air power will play a dual role. Not only would it continue its present function, but the robot war - "the battle of missiles" - would bring a new-type warfare wherein the offense would attempt to guide pilotless bombs through electronics. The defense, said de Seversky, would be to jam electronic power, causing the bombs to go wide of the target.
He thinks the Japs lost the war because they did not understand the full application of air power. Had they used it as a mature striking force, he said, fighting could have been prolonged greatly. As great a believer in air power as in the days when the world called him a radical, de Seversky said that "once a nation's air power is destroyed, she is defeated."
Praising work accomplished by the ATC, de Seversky said, "Unquestionably the part played by ATC was a decisive factor in the winning of the war."

Air Expert
Alexander de Seversky was the leading ace of the Russian Naval air force during World War I, despite the fact that he lost his right leg while on a bombardment mission in 1915. In the early twenties he worked in the U.S. assisting Gen. Billy Mitchell in developing air power. He became an American citizen in 1927. De Seversky designed the world's first fully-automatic bombsight, the fastest amphibian plane and the first low-wing basic training plane for the USAAF. He holds many world's speed records and in 1940 was presented with the Harmon trophy. He is considered one of the greatest experts on tactics and strategy of aerial warfare. Charles A. Beard called his book, Victory Through Air Power, "more important to America than all the other war books put together."

http://cbi-theater-10.home.comcast.net/ ... 11545.html

[FirstClassSkeptic]

Well, I only read the first page. Then it jumped to 'scale of the universe." Did I do something wrong, or is the thread messed up?

He mentions Lawson, and the no atom theory. Actually, I thought Lawson only said, no nucleus.