This is a companion piece (in my opinion) to the article on ETA and Spain on this site by Sorensen371 (https://www.big-lies.org/nuke-lies/www.nukelies.com/forum/spain-catholics-jews-moors-crowns-eta.html. The Italy piece is new, and copied from https://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1004&sid=5d5e83e8727ae8386c938cd1f9e915e7 which is on cluesforum.info, section on Media Fakery, Cold War, Nuke Hoax. The posters all seem happy with the idea that the Cold War was a hoax. There may have been some nuclear weapons/power connection, but, if so, it's not here. This is their work; I haven't copied the emphases - bold, italic, underlining - or most of the images.
Somewhere out there may be the truth about the murder of Sweden's Olof Palme (1986) and/or Anna Lindh (2003).
In Britain of course there are suspicions over the deaths of Gaitskell, John Smith and of course Diana and Dr Kelly.
Olof Palme: there's some sort of link with Tetrapak heirs. [Tetrapak is roughly a folded card and foil packaging for sterilised fruit juices; the Swedish connection presumably is with wood pulp]. Eva Rausing died in May 2012 in London. In suspicious circumstances; and claiming apparently she knew the killer of Olof Palme (he was killed in 1986). This seems to have left another heir, Sigrid Rausing, with a few billion, married to a Jew and an anti-white propagandist, including donor to jewist street thugs. This suggests Palme's murder was Jewish-related. I found a youtube of Sigrid Rausing, reading an extract of a book written (or supposedly written) by her, in English, at a literary festival. The introducer for some reason doesn't mention her vast wealth; nor her anti-white activities, typical of Jews. Her book appears to be about collective farming (i.e. Jewish-style forced farms) in Estonia.
- Inserted 19 April 2015 - rerev. _________________________________________________________________________________
Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it really?
Post by bostonterrierowner » July 11th, 2011, 10:00 pm
Dear All ,
Prime Minister Aldo Moro was abducted and killed by Red Brigades in 1976 in Rome . At least its an official story . Simon is an expat living in Italy and NoHo I think is an actual Italian so I reckon you guys have been exposed to this story. I used to be a fan of Dr. Tarpley and took his explanation of the event at face value in the past, I mean Moro was killed by Nato , Gladio commando because he was planning to let the communist into the governement in order to break permanent italian impass and finally give the country a stable government. How many cabinets did you guys have already since the end of WWII ? 50? I am not Webster's fan anymore for to my grave disappointment it ocuured to me that he is an ugly , ugly liar , but I am still interested in what really happened. The whole thread can be seen as a bigger picture , it can shed some light on cold war fakery and so called leftist terrorism , allegedly sponsored by the soviet bloc. Was Aldo Moro's murder real? Were The Red Brigades real as well? The same goes for Bologne train station blast and many others. If there wasnt really a cold war , which I am certain of , to my understanding all this havoc wreaked around Europe through the 70s by leftist terrorist must have been fake too.
Lets look into this media fakery and PsyOp of the prehistoric era before EU , played on both sides of the Iron Curtain
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Re: Murder of Italian P.M. Aldo Moro - what was it really?
Post by guivre » July 12th, 2011, 4:37 am
I've really wondered about the Red Brigade, knowing what we know now about Terrorism, and just how picture perfect the Dozier rescue was to the US.
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Re: Murder of Italian P.M. Aldo Moro - what was it really?
Post by nonhocapito » July 12th, 2011, 6:07 am
I don't know about Tarpley's version of the story. But personally I have studied the Moro story for years in the past, reading a number of books by italian researchers that tried to shed some light on a very suspicious story and its absurd official "truths".
I could go over it on this forum, summing up what I found out about it. It would require for me to take a few books off the shelf and re-read the whole thing with the knowledge I have today about fakery in the media. I don't think I'd have the time, and the matter is certainly not urgent, but it certainly would be interesting.
It must be said that although this is a story filled with absurd details, propaganda, lies and manipulation, as it is I don't believe it entirely qualifies as media fakery. I always thought and -- barring my re-reading of the whole thing today in light of media fakery -- I still think that Aldo Moro was actually kidnapped and killed by an organization that called itself the "Red Brigades" -- although it is all but demonstrated what they were really set about, and what their actual connections were.
The NATO-P2-CIA connection is of course part of the scenario, although there are more interesting elements to it.
In the 1970s Italy was one of the political forces of the Mediterranean more inclined to support Arabs and Palestinians in an age when their recognition in the world was hard to come. A few many connections of the Red Brigades with Israel have been hinted at, although naturally never proved, and it is possible to imagine that Israel, in accord with Kissinger (who in 1973 had already experimented the taking over of a modern democracy in Chile via "destabilization"), had interests to "shake up" the italian establishment that was too inclined to follow in foreign policy the influence of the Vatican*, or to behave too independently in the Mediterranean scenario.
Back in the early 70s, the Red Brigades, born as a guerrilla organization meant to support the workers' battles in the factories, was infiltrated: his former founders captured and sent to jail, while new leaders took charge (namely the shady character "Mario Moretti" whose upbringing and connections have proved to be suspicious to say the least), steering the group towards more and more violence and bloodshed.
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Mario Moretti, the shady figure who allegedly headed the kidnapping of Aldo Moro
Finally they decided to "strike at the heart of state" by kidnapping a top government official. The kidnapping was as unrealistic to achieve as you can imagine it, and yet everything went well for the commando that, apparently, featured among its members at least one trained shooter, never identified, who alone inflicted all the deadly shots to the bodyguards of Moro. The other peons shot randomly around and had no real weapon training. Incredible as that. Ah, also: for reasons that the members of the commando were never able to explain, during the ambush to Moro in via Fani they were all dressed as airline pilots. The real reason to dress up as oddly as that can only be that they didn't know in advance who all the other members were, and had to have an obvious way to recognize each other during the operation.
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The ambush of Via Fani, in Rome
For all visible intents and purposes, it made no sense to kidnap Moro who was, as author Leonardo Sciascia would put it, "the less involved of them all". Moro** represented the remaining part of the italian political establishment that was not entirely corrupted and, more importantly, that still was capable of independent decisions. So to go and pick him, speaks volumes about the real intents and mindset of the Red Brigades.
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Aldo Moro during the kidnapping, in front of the oddly shaped five-pointed symbol of the red brigades
During the 55 days of kidnapping, the whole italian political and media establishment (of left, center and right) was united in a chorus that wanted no deals with the Red Brigades. They distanced themselves from the pleas of the family of Moro and maintained that it was really the "State" (which they never respected) that was really being under attack, rather than the single person of Moro.
This rhetoric was clearly a psy-op requirement, to enact the scapegoating of Moro for everyone to see. As Moro allegedly stated in his last letter from his imprisonment, directed to all the italian politicians: "my blood will fall back on you". So as the story goes he died alone betrayed by his friends and comrades, after which, visibly in the italian political life of years to come, the former friends and comrades were more united than ever in keeping the things exactly as they were before.
It has been acknowledged in the following years that the kidnapping and murder of Aldo Moro was really meant to make the political alliance between the Communist Party and the Christian Party (an alliance wanted and designed by Moro, to go past the two-blocks mentality, and disliked by both Washington and Moscow) impossible. For this reason his body was showed to be found in a car parked at equal distance between the head offices of the two parties. Yet it was never fully explained why then these two parties unanimously behaved so cowardly during the kidnapping, especially the communist party that was about to be ferried by this man into the government.
But another, less visible element is here to consider: the street where Moro's body was found, via Caetani in Rome, also happens to be at the heart of the old jewish ghetto, where, as it has been later suggested, Moro had probably been held the whole time, while the police looked for him all over italy.
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Moro's body showed to everyone in Italy as found in a parked R4 red car in via Caetani in Rome. Note the symbol of the (scape)goat on the wall right there
So within the first message by the red brigades (we have stricken at heart of the state) was buried a second message (Yalta does not want this alliance to happen) - and within that message there might have been another one: Israel doesn't appreciate your middle-east policy. In any case, all parts were warned. The zionification of italy continued, the communist-christian alliance never did happened, the Communist Party conveniently never asked for it and remained at the opposition for the following decades until its dismantling also in the 90s.
The Moro episode was the culmination of years of apparent bloodshed and terrorist acts that had achieved many results, the more important being to prepare a very politically-minded nation, as Italy had been since the 50s, to a shift into a new age of carefree thinking and mindless interests that was about to come: the "Reganian" years, the Berlusconi years, with the change in culture and way of thinking and values that they meant. Many adults citizens that had been involved with politics for years were so disgusted by the Moro tragedy (among many other tragedies) that left politics for good. It wasn't worth to try and change the world. And the younger ones at that point were too cynical to even care...
As to the media fakery, I can't say to what extent it was used in this case. There are certain elements to this story that in fact have the look of fakery as we know it. For example the so-called "false document of Lago della Duchessa", a proved forgery of a Red Brigades "bulletin" that was distributed to the media during the last days of the kidnapping, announcing that Moro had been "suicided", and that his body was to be found in the Duchessa lake in the Lazio region.
The media got into a frenzy, newspapers and television for two days showed rescuers trying to find the body in a half-frozen lake, the country was in shock. It has been later proved that the document came by a known forgerer who worked part-time for the italian secret service. It has been said that the reason for the fake bulletin was to push the "divided" Red Brigades into the decision to kill Moro, meanwhile preparing the nation to the hype and shock that was a requirement for the whole story to work... Or maybe it was just an alternative storyline that went wrong.
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Looking for the body that isn't there
Even more fakery could probably be showed in the many letters that allegedly Moro wrote during his kidnapping, and that the Red Brigades delivered to family, politicians, clergy and newspapers - behaving like the perfect little postmen in a militarized Rome. Many of the letters have been proved to have been tampered with or to be complete forgeries; others are just really odd letters. The letters, filled as they are with names of politicians and of organizations, are the element that make me think that not only the citizens of the nation were under assault, but the political establishment (certain, I'm not saying honest, but stubbornly independent, parts of it) was under assault to.
Last astonishing element of the story for now: all the members of the commando that allegedly kidnapped and killed Moro are today, after having spent some time in jail, free. Including the leader Mario Moretti.
* we are not talking about present-day Vatican, all aligned with global forces, and whose new popes just as they are elected must hint at the tragedy of the holocaust as an homage to the real "values" in charge: it was a Vatican possibly not yet completely infiltrated and not completely detached from the italian political life, a detachment that was accomplished completely in the 90s right before Berlusconi's arrival, when upon big political scandals the historical christian party "Democrazia Cristiana", that had stayed in power for 60 years, was dismantled in a matter of months. Although as to the Vatican involvement with the story, it must be noted that pope Paul VI behaved quite horribly during the kidnapping of Moro, limiting himself to asking to the kidnappers to release the hostage without conditions.
** As this is always a source of confusion, it must be said that Aldo Moro was not Prime Minister or President of the Republic. At the moment of the kidnapping he was the President of "Democrazia Cristiana", the christian party that had been in power since WWII. He was very influential because of his long history of work for the party, and because of his ability to open bridges and dialogue with the opposition. He had been P.M. and minister before though. During a famous dinner with Kissinger, back in the states, years before the kidnapping, Moro had disappointed everyone by stating the need of Italy to behave independently when it came to decide which political alliances were best for its own governance. Some said that it was then when his fate was sealed.
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it really?
Post by bostonterrierowner » July 12th, 2011, 9:38 am
Great stuff NoHo , exactly what I was hoping for starting this thread , more to come I am sure ,
Regarding Tarpley , he practically made his name on Moro's case , "Chi ha ucciso Aldo Moro? " was authored by him in 1978. In there he claims that Aldo Moro's death was orchestrated by massonic , neo-fascist lodge "Propaganda Duo" in cooperation with high ranking government officials and blamed on Red Brigades.Kissinger ,Brzezinski , Nato , Gladio , CIA as supreme string-pullers.The reason was his attempt to rule independently of Yalta , Nato constraints.
On my part I was suspecting that Aldo Moro was just a Vicsim/Patsy/Actor , elevated to the top cabinet position for a short period of time ( common thing in pre Berlusconi Italy ) , with his death and abduction completely fabficated. Thanks to this forum now I know that it wasnt the case and what is even more important Moro wasnt a PM but very influential Christian Democratic Party leader capable of making the difference on italian political stage.
If he really was a challenge to Yalta his fate was decided in Washington , London and Moscow as well. Status quo was being slowly dismantled but maybe Aldo Moro wanted to jump ahead too early and secure better position for Italy in the future configuration? 1978 was a year Wojtyla , John Paul II was chosen as a pope and around this time USSR entered Afghanistan. Dominos were put in motion , Modus Operandi decided upon and Italy was just too important . Clear message sent to all "independent" western European states , play the ball or be dead.
Lets go to Red Brigades. What was it really? Italian intelligence ? CIA-KGB joint venture? Maybe it was just a media operation with silly left leaning students to make it look as it was a real thing? Were Italian terrorist attacks in the 70s real? I mean Bologne for example or were they just London or Madrid 30 years earlier? Maybe it was just a noise and independent thinking politicians NoHo was talking about were the target from the very beginning? The same is true for Germany. Imagine Italy and Germany teaming up to have a greater say in post cold war Europe which they certainly knew were coming.
I think we can do some really good research here and come to important conclusions. Some light can be shed on TPTB operations what can give us some insight into the future and better understanding of what is really going on in the world.
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Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it really?
Post by nonhocapito » July 12th, 2011, 10:39 am
bostonterrierowner wrote:Regarding Tarpley , he practically made his name on Moro's case , "Chi ha ucciso Aldo Moro? " was authored by him in 1978. In there he claims that Aldo Moro's death was orchestrated by massonic , neo-fascist lodge "Propaganda Duo" in cooperation with high ranking government officials and blamed on Red Brigades.Kissinger ,Brzezinski , Nato , Gladio , CIA as supreme string-pullers.The reason was his attempt to rule independently of Yalta , Nato constraints.
(...)
Lets go to Red Brigades. What was it really? Italian intelligence ? CIA-KGB joint venture? Maybe it was just a media operation with silly left leaning students to make it look as it was a real thing? Were Italian terrorist attacks in the 70s real? I mean Bologne for example or were they just London or Madrid 30 years earlier? Maybe it was just a noise and independent thinking politicians NoHo was talking about were the target from the very beginning? The same is true for Germany. Imagine Italy and Germany teaming up to have a greater say in post cold war Europe which they certainly knew were coming.
Nope, sorry there is no way Tarpley wrote that book in 1978. It took years of research to figure out elements of this story. The P2 lodge wasn't uncovered until 1982: Gladio was acknowledge later, and its role was never really clarified. The connection between Gladio and Moro besides is pure speculation because we know nothing to this day of Gladio real activities. But of course Tarpley general take is probably correct, especially about the p2 that was certainly at the center of the Moro affair. The way I see it, the masonic alliances inside the italian political scenario were useful to obtain support and collaboration and silence by key elements of security, politics, law. But this doesn't mean that the masonic folks were really the minds behind these events. Maybe they just thought they were. I think the same applies to more recent events of our world history too.
What were the Red Brigades? My take is that they were a "real" terrorist organization (in the sense that they really acted to terrorize), guided from abroad with the collaboration of Italian corrupted officials. The RB had fanatic peons in it who thought the armed way was the way, and leaders who knew better that picking as targets "real" friends.
As to the bombing of the train station of Bologna, it has no connection to the Red Brigades, as it was attributed to right-wing terrorists, also with deep connections with the military and with foreign influences.
Interesting the election of the pope coming in 1978. Undoubtedly the path to the dissolution of the Warsaw pact starts there, and it is possible it started even before with Moro, in the sense that in the long run that act of violence and arrogance would work in favor of the dismantling of communist block, rather than "freezing" things more as it first seemed to be set out to do.
But as i think I stated, I believe there is more to it, and all this talk about east and west blocks could just be a pretext to justify a more simple destabilization work against a nation that wasn't deemed friendly enough, obedient enough.
Anyway, as I said, it would take a lot of time and energy to dig up all the sources and rewrite this story today, when it is already hard to find time for other pressing issues. For now, I'll leave you with a quote from the epic, splendid, tragic book by Leonardo Sciascia, "The Moro Affair" (L'Affaire Moro), that first came out in 1978 denouncing the complete discrepancy between reality and the official truths:
The impression is that everything in the Moro affair happens, so to speak, in literature (...) in a dimension of indefective, imaginative consequences from which redound a constant, tenacious, ambiguity. So much perfection can exist inside our imagination, inside our fantasy: not in reality.
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Leonardo Sciascia
It could apply to a lot of what we discuss on this forum, couldn't it?
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it really?
Post by brianv » July 12th, 2011, 10:59 am
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=9&p=1071384&hilit=bologna#p1071384
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it really?
Postby bostonterrierowner » July 12th, 2011, 11:01 am
Webster Griffin Tarpley – one of the most incisive critics of Anglo-American hegemony. As an activist historian he is best known for his book – George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography (1992), a masterpiece of research which is still a must read. He is a 9/11 Truth Scholar and activist; AB Princeton 1966, summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa; Fulbright Scholar at University of Turin, Italy; and MA in humanities from Skidmore College. He is fluent in Italian, German, French, Latin and Russian. A decades-long expert on international terrorism, his 1978 study for the Italian parliament “Chi ha ucciso Aldo Moro?” (Who Killed Aldo Moro?) broke open the ownership of the “Red Brigades” by NATO’s clandestine “stay-behind” networks.
As you can see Tarpley claims to have commited “Chi ha ucciso Aldo Moro?” in 1978 , as a lying scumback he is it can be another lie
But seriously its very interesting how he obtained all this info. I am sure he has been an CIA asset at least since his years in Princeton , so maybe everything he wrote in 1978 had a purpose of disinformation , something worth looking into.Thanks for your time and effort NoHo its a great deal of data to digest for me now . Like you said , the topic is not urgent , lets keep it open , and post when convinient. I can bet some connections with 9/11 might be found especially on Italian side of the hoax.
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it really?
Post by nonhocapito » July 12th, 2011, 11:27 am
bostonterrierowner wrote:Webster Griffin Tarpley – one of the most incisive critics of Anglo-American hegemony. As an activist historian he is best known for his book – George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography (1992), a masterpiece of research which is still a must read. He is a 9/11 Truth Scholar and activist; AB Princeton 1966, summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa; Fulbright Scholar at University of Turin, Italy; and MA in humanities from Skidmore College. He is fluent in Italian, German, French, Latin and Russian. A decades-long expert on international terrorism, his 1978 study for the Italian parliament “Chi ha ucciso Aldo Moro?” (Who Killed Aldo Moro?) broke open the ownership of the “Red Brigades” by NATO’s clandestine “stay-behind” networks.
As you can see Tarpley claims to have commited “Chi ha ucciso Aldo Moro?” in 1978 , as a lying scumback he is it can be another lie
Thanks for your time and effort NoHo its a great deal of data to digest for me now . Like you said , the topic is not urgent , lets keep it open , and post when convinient. I can bet some connections with 9/11 might be found especially on Italian side of the hoax.
Can you source this quote about Tarpley? This 1978 study of his could be possible only if it was a "secret" study (but it that case the recipient would not be the parliament of the republic). The existence of the "stay behind" networks was revealed to the italian public in 1990. The P2 lodge was discovered by magistrates and allegedly dismantled in 1983. So whatever his study was back in 1978 there is no way it contained these elements. He probably put everything together much later (I suspect leeching on the crucial and comprehensive Sergio Flamigni's 1988 study "The spider's web", La tela del ragno) and he's just trying to make it look like the same work since 1978. The also crucial albeit incomplete relation of Leonardo Sciascia to the italian parliament, that officially proposed a rebuttal of the official story to the italian authorities (producing nothing), took almost 3 years to be put together, and was proposed only in 1982. In short the timeline is not in Tarpley's favor
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it really?
Post by bostonterrierowner » July 12th, 2011, 12:25 pm
Can you source this quote about Tarpley?
Sure NoHo : https://www.tarpley.net . Tarpley says the truth only by mistake , so I am sure he lied this time too.
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it really?
Postby nonho capito » July 13th, 2011, 4:02 pm
Against my better judgment, I ended up pulling a couple of books off the shelves, drawn to dig up at least a few more details of this sordid story. My first desire I guess was to define a little better the relationship between Henry Kissinger and Aldo Moro, since it seems Kissinger disappointment with Moro was crucial in sealing Moro's fate (I'm always open to the idea that the whole thing is fake to deeper levels, obviously, but I'll follow what I have).
Why Henry Kissinger wanted Aldo Moro dead?
Kissinger and Moro, 1974
I'll start by translating for you a passage of the book by Sergio Flamigni dedicated to the writings of Moro during the kidnapping (Il mio sangue ricadrà su di loro, ISBN 88-7953-058-5) that sums up what happened between Moro and Kissinger back in 1974, according to the interpretation given by Sergio Flamigni.
In september 1974, foreign minister Moro accompanied Italian president Leone on an official trip to the U.S.A. On this occasion, Moro had a long and dramatic talk with Secretary of State Kissinger. Confirming the strongest opposition of the Americans to the dialogue opened by Moro with the Italian Communist party (PCI), Kissinger threatened to revoke the decisive economical help to the Italian economy, if the Christian Democratic party (DC) ceased to be anti-communist. The following day, during a function at the Saint Patrick church in New York, Moro collapsed, and after having cancelled all his previous engagements, left the United States in a hurry.
Back in Italy, Moro told to one of his collaborators he wanted to leave politics for a few years. At the University where he taught, the leader of the DC appeared quite shaken; he said to one of his pupils: "Don't you think that I know I can end up like Kennedy?"
His wife and sons will tell to the inquiring parliamentary committee, and will repeat during the numerous trials, that during that trip to the United States Moro had received serious and repeated threats, explicitly referred to his political strategy.
As you can read, and as it is visible all across his remarkable, fundamental work on the Red Brigades and the death of Moro, Flamigni's emphasis is often on the dislike that Moro enemies had for his political dealings with the Communist Party. This is not surprising since Flamigni was a member of the Communist Party himself, like many italian intellectuals of the past century (the PCI was in fact the largest communist party of the west).
Let's now skip forward to the days in the spring of 1978 when Moro was incarcerated by the Red Brigades (RB) in a (never identified) apartment in the center of Rome. Apparently undergoing a daily interrogation by some (never identified) member of the RB, Moro produced hundreds of pages of "leaks" about the activities of himself, of his party, and of other Italian politicians. Years later all these pages, composing the so-called "Memorial Moro" will be "accidentally" found: but certainly "cleansed" of the most incriminating details, too useful for blackmailing to be given out to the press. Anyway, the pages can be very interesting. And here's one (from the same book quoted above) that mentions, among other things, Henry Kissinger. These, apparently, are the words of Moro himself.
An important chapter of our foreign policy and, in a sense, of our general policy, is the one regarding the Middle-East (...) I declared to the parliament back in 1970 that Palestinians were not waiting for help, but for a homeland. I said it with the support of the large majority of the chamber. But the serious issue of conflict with the Americans and with Henry Kissinger was whether or not the crisis was falling under the NATO umbrella, which implied the use of our military bases in support of the Israelis. We, with a small risk of friction with this powerful ally, denied that it could be considered a NATO crisis, and refused our bases in support of Israel.
This new orientation, pro-arabic or rather more balanced, continued in the following years to be highly disliked by the americans (...). This was the personal position of Kissinger who besides didn't hide it. He grew a resentment for the italian side and for my persona that was explained... with my excessive openness to the PCI.
So what Aldo Moro is really saying here, it appears to me, is that the dialogue with the PCI was just one part of the problem. Probably not the most serious one, because there must have been many ways to get in the way of such an accord, considering that Moscow wasn't interested in it either. Instead, apparently, what really pissed off Kissinger was the refusal of Aldo Moro (as italian foreign minister) to actively support Israel against the palestinians (the palestinians in the seventies had started to fight back).
Believe it or not, this side of the story is never discussed in Italy, not even by those researchers that are set out to discover the "hidden truths" of the Moro case.
The same interpretation is often given for a lot of italian destabilization conspiracies of those years. In a 2008 series of articles, the Italian news outlet Repubblica told the story of how European powers, headed by the British and the french under American supervision, back in 1976 were determined to cause a coup in Italy to overthrown the Italian republic, all because the PCI was getting too close to the government. In the articles, Kissinger and his machinations are often mentioned, but Israel not even once.
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it really?
Post by bostonterrierowner » July 13th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Looks like Moro's fate was sealed by his attempt to be an independent politician . Given Italy's size and economic relevance he couldnt be just left with his delusions alone. Drunk guy on a bike can hurt himself only , this same guy in a tank can be a real truoblemaker , if you follow my line. Status quo was challenged in various ways , probably the proverbial nail to the coffin was Aldo Moro's anti-zionist attitude. Like you said its always possible that everything was just a game , designed to convince us that the game is serious , the communist threat is real and even high ranking politician can be punished for trying to appease USSR. I am also biased by default against commy writers
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it really?
Post by nonhocapito » July 13th, 2011, 8:22 pm
bostonterrierowner wrote:
I am also biased by default against commy writers
I see what you mean, but please consider that the Communist Party in Italy, even though originally directed by Moscow and certainly quite mafioso in many of its acts, was never in charge. So it would often have among its ranks independent thinkers that would have never be allowed in the east block. In certain generations (say young adults of the fifties or sixties) if you were against the establishment you were in the PCI, at least until you knew better, so to be a "commie" could be a sign of a certain bias on certain issues (or a lot with stupid people), but not necessarily a sign of subservient thinking. Flamigni's study on the Red Brigades, as I said, remains crucial because it is the most objective, most comprehensive available. Of course he does not consider the zionist angle, but I wouldn't expect that from anyone in Italy. It is enough for me that he doesn't censor the material that can help me figure it out.
You are right in suggesting that the story could have been faked as part of the east-west mind games: but I remain convinced that Moro had to be taken out because it was not possible to buy him, for whatever reason: be it his ethics or his affiliation to other powers. Naturally on the background of this possibly necessary murder, a vast psy-op took place against the italian citizens to "shake" them into more disillusionment and escapism and fear.
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it really?
Post by corsarino » July 13th, 2011, 10:12 pm
The guy who was sent by the Usa Government to help the Italian Ministro dell' Interno Cossiga was Steve Pieczenick.
That guy wrote some books in collaboration with Tom Clancy, the man interviewed on tv on 9 11.
Steve Pieczenick wrote a book "Massima Vigilanza" about a method to controll the President by a personal psichiatric.
The psichiatric who controlled Cossiga was Ferracuti.
I 've discussed with Webster Tarpley about the no-plane theory; he didsn't accept my theories.
However, I think that Webster is right on Caso Moro; The Britannic Party managed the story, under control by the USA.
Brigate Rosse is a fake group; at the end of WWII there was Brigate Nere (Fascist) Brigate Azzurre (Monarchic) Brigate Bianche (Democristiani), Commie were GAP (Gruppi di aziione Partigiana); who decided the name of Brigate Rosse was a man who knew the facts of 1944-1945 (Yalta year)
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it really?
Postby boston terrierowner » July 13th, 2011, 10:58 pm
To my astonishment after browsing polish internet I found out that Moro's body's location was revealed to Police by Romano Prodi. The best thing though is that he obtained this wisdom through some spiritual , psychic experience! Have you heard about this before guys? Its just unbelievable. I remeber accusations thrown at Prodi for being a KGB agent. Its really , really interesting.
Morover , police were very incompetent prior to finding the body , but after its location culprits were found almost immediately. Weird.
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it really?
Post by nonhocapito » July 13th, 2011, 11:16 pm
bostonterrierowner wrote:
To my astonishment after browsing polish internet I found out that Moro's body's location was revealed to Police by Romano Prodi. (...) Morover , police were very incompetent prior to finding the body , but after its location culprits were found almost immediately. Weird.
No unfortunately this is not exact. It took a few more years, and the Dozier case, to catch some of the members or the RB that were responsible for the kidnapping of Moro. As with the location of the body, it was given by the Red Brigades with a phone call to the family. Moro's son answered the phone, and he was told where he could retrieve the body of his father. Imagine that.
Now to Romano Prodi. Prodi, weeks before, had indicated to the police the name "Gradoli" as a possible location where Moro was kept.
As an explanation, he said that the name "Gradoli" had turned out during a psychic game with friends. It is generally accepted by researchers that by giving this ridiculous explanation he was in fact covering the real source of the information, that came through his second-hand connections with the guerrila groups of Bologna.
He was in any case capable to convince the italian police. Unfortunately the police went to search the town of Gradoli, completely missing the fact that there was in Rome a street named "Gradoli". I kid you not.
They put the town upside down and turned out nothing. Prodi was vindicated when a while later a RB base was accidentally discovered in Rome in via Gradoli 96, apartment 11 (yeah I know). Moro was not there, nor he had ever been, but the base was filled with documents and weapons.
Gradoli is a short street closed on one side. It was a security hazard to have a base there, it made no sense, and yet Gradoli was an operational center of the Red Brigades for almost the whole duration of the Moro Operation, and apparently for a long time before. It was also the crash pad for Mario Moretti.
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The RB base in Via Gradoli 96, raided by the police (via google).
Years later, however, it was discovered that the entire building in via Gradoli 96, plus many other buildings in the same street, belonged to the italian secret service. That's where the leader of the RB had decided to locate his headquarters *.
I could go on, telling you the wondrous story of how the base was discovered, during the final days of the kidnapping, thanks to a strangely defective shower faucet, and the little helping hand of Mario Moretti himself.
Welcome to the Moro case. <_<
* Incidentally, in the same building in via Gradoli 96, was staged a big politcal scandal in 2009, the Marrazzo case, involving sex parties, transvestites, cocaine, secret videos, murder and blackmail. Apparently the building remains to this day a center for sordid operations.
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it really?
Post by bostonterrierowner » July 14th, 2011, 8:55 am
Moro's case is just unbelievable . Prodi , psychics , commies , fascists , masons , ruskies , yankees ,vatican , pope , bishops , kgb , cia .
Its all there . I need to wrap my mind around it and I think in the first place Red Brigades should be taken a closer look at.NoHo , as an Itaian , do you seriously think that Prodi is/was a KGB asset?
corsarino wrote:
Brigate Rosse is a fake group; at the end of WWII there was Brigate Nere (Fascist) Brigate Azzurre (Monarchic) Brigate Bianche (Democristiani), Commie were GAP (Gruppi di aziione Partigiana); who decided the name of Brigate Rosse was a man who knew the facts of 1944-1945 (Yalta year)
Could you please be more generous with us on the subject ?
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it really?
Postby corsarino » July 14th, 2011, 5:58 pm
At the end of 1943 Allen Dulles ( USA) and John MCcaffery (UK) organized the “colored revolution”; against the “Brigate Nere” (black= Fascist)they helped the other colored Brigades with money, arms ammunitions and other products.
Other colors were : Bianche (white= Christian) , Azzurre (light Blue= Monarchic), Garibaldi (Socialist and Communist), Franchi (liberal).
The method used Dulles and Mccaffery was simply “Divide et Impera”; the simplest way to divide was the use of color. Impera was a must for USA and UK.
In those years, there were no Red Brigades.
Twenty- five years later, Usa and Uk started the “Strategy of tension”; The objective was to “divide” the Italian people in order to get a bigger power (Impera).
So they financed a new brigade : “Brigate Rosse” to use for false flag operation.
Edgardo Sogno, leader of Franchi Brigate, started in 1970, the "Comitati di Resistenza Democratica" with MCcaffery's son using money from USA and intelligence from London.
